Hannitized blesses us with some more of his "wisdom" in comments. He really doesn't appear to comprehend the meaning of 'conflate."
Let's dig in shall we
The lands weren't stolen because they were barren? Apparently Jake lacks the historical knowledge of seeded lands (its an irrelevant point anyway and I will elaborate on that). And even if he has an understanding of that he lacks the knowledge that Native Americans didn't really settle the land. There were the Olmec, Myans and Aztecs who in some areas did. But the natives who occupied the American South West and West coast, did not. What Ol Jakey tries to pretend didn't happen is that the Spanish conquered the natives and force them to blend in or perish. The Mexican peoples were largely citizens not of choice, but of consequence.
Second, I guess to jake if the land isn't settled, you can take it. Therefore, he shouldnt care if immigrants come into the country and take land that doesn't have houses or currently being settled? Fair enough Jake? Can they just take the land nobody is using?
Lastly, Jake seems to ignore the Spanish-American war. The war that was started over border issues around Texas succession. I wonder why he leaves that fact out? Oh yeah, because America had to illegally steal the land in order to get to the point of the Treaty of Guadeloupe Hidalgo. Not to mention that the Mexican government only represented the Spanish, not the conquered peoples. It would be like saying the American government spoke for Native Americans in its territory, before it took the territory of Mexico. Its a farce, a lie and it is not reality.
What Jake would have you swallow is the history that makes sense to him, coming from a Euro-centric point of view. Nothing to see here folks.
First, yes, I come from a Euro-centric view. I do not smear myself with patchouli oil like our resident hippie and pretend I'm something I'm not.
Second, are we Spanish? Did I miss that day in history class? In fact, we helped uninstall the Spanish in Mexico, but since that would be evil America doing something good you'll never hear about it from our resident hippie.
Third, absolutely nothing illegal about anything leading up to the treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo. Calling it such doesn't make it so. What our resident Hippie neglects to mention is what I dealt with in my post, that the REASON the Texicans were INVITED was that the land was empty and not being used.
Fourth, is it just me or does our resident Hippie appear confused on who exactly Native Americans are and who Mexicans are. I don't think a majority of Native Americans would agree with his position, certainly not the ones I've known personally.
What Jake doesnt realize is that Many of the Native peoples of Arizona, California and Texas (who were pushed to Texas and Mexico from many reservations from the Americas) didnt have a choice in choosing their way of life. When the Europeans arrived, they robbed the Natives (who were there before them) of their way of life. Forced to live in a capitalistic society, complete with social class determining your position in it. Much like the Blacks in the US. If you had a native American blood in you, you were a second or third class citizen with little chance to advance in society. only the Pure Spanish were able to flourish, as best they could.
What you see when immigrants cross the border is not the Spanish who failed in Mexico, but the second and third class generations offspring. These are the people who suffered through the cultural changes that were forced upon them from the Spanish. When he says they are welcome to return to their own lands, he really doesnt mean that because many of them have homelands in California, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas. No, he does not wan't for them to return to their lands at all. You can return to your lands Jake.
Again, are we Spanish, am I missing something? This argument is simply leftist fantasy masquerading as fact. I talked about actual history in my post, it's response? Made up nonsense that simply doesn't comport with anybody's understanding of what happened.
Since these aren't "their lands," no, I don't think "they" should return. Look leftist loon, wars are fought, wars are lost, land is taken, I denied none of this in my post. To call it illegal is simply throwing words out as if words have no meaning. A war is not "illegal" because it's fought, do you even know what makes a war illegal?
And who else should we deal with but those people running the country? Should we have gone hut to hut and polled? Are you retarded? Never mind, rhetorical question.
Oh yes, those dumb "Mexicans". As if being Mexican represents one race and class of people who come from a land where everyone was treated as equals and had a fair chance to succeed. As if the Natives had a choice.
The Natives had no choice when they were conquered and they had no choice when they were made 2nd, 3rd and 4th class citizens due their bloodline. There was a time in this continent when those with Native blood had to deny it or hide it in order to gain social prestige. You can't pick yourself up from your boot straps if you are an oppressed people and your government didnt adequately build an economy where you had a real chance.
Are you talking about Mexico or America? You are very imprecise in this comment. Yet in Mexico this is still true and in America it isn't, gosh, how evil of us?
And yes, I think Mexicans are very dumb economically which is what I clearly noted in my post. I believe that socialism is for retards, hence, you're a retard. Mexico continues to make remarkably dumb economic choices, this is because we didn't allow them to keep California?
No you idjit, it's because they love a big, corrupt government. Which is entirely their business until it becomes our problem, which it currently is on so many levels.
You often accuse me of lying, being a moron, yet you do the one thing all dishonest debaters do H, you cherry pick your points, why? because either you're a remarkably poor debater or you know in your heart that your full of shit. My money's on the latter.
No Jake. STOLE LAND and INVADED LAND THAT WAS RIPE that they HADN'T HAD TIME TO UTILIZE. Give me a break with that spin. Further, Mexicans left the land that was stolen because the laws Americans made after they invaded its cities made it impossible for them to live comfortably because Americans were racists.
Uh-huh, how about all that RIPE LAND in Mexico right now? Why hasn't it been UTILIZED? I'm dying to hear how it's all our fault. An extraordinary aspect to your pathology is your ability to take any situation and turn it so America is at fault. How are we holding down Mexico today H? Are we forcing them to privatize companies? To be so utterly corrupt they cannot even have a functioning economy? These are things that could be changed, but not by us, only by those directly effected.
This will be the last time I ever pull one of your comments above the fold H, care to know why as you fade into obscurity? Because of this line...
Mexicans left the land that was stolen because the laws Americans made after they invaded its cities made it impossible for them to live comfortably because Americans were racists.
Yes H, and Mexicans weren't? You are a disgusting example of a moral relativist. You can excuse any behavior by any individual except Americans. Or better, you will find a way to blame Americans for all the world's ills. Know what chief? America isn't perfect, I've never claimed it was, but it is a pretty damn good country and we try to get better which puts up on a large part of the world.
But to one with your pathology it's never enough, it will never be enough until this country is destroyed for all her many and manifold sins, as judged by you, and sins are never judged more harshly than when judged by one with no love for the sinner.
You are a man who has lost the savor of being an American. You are a man without a country, and as such I pity you. If you judged a friend or a spouse as harshly as you judge this nation you would soon find yourself friendless or divorced. You are not a 'citizen of the world' no matter how much you may think you are, and the peace and prosperity you so take for granted has been purchased by the earlier generations of this country with blood and sweat and toil and yes, mistakes, by those good people you so despise from the luxury and comfort of the current day circumstances.
It is always a mistake to judge history with modern eyes, you weren't there, you don't know and frankly you lack the wit and empathy to even try to understand, yet you judge your forebearers as racists and murderers and rapists, this is not even a tithe of the story. It's just that due to the weakness of character that's been bred into you once you heard those parts of the story you could hear nothing else.
Like so much else on the left, you're not merely against America, you're on the other side rooting for her destruction, and may we meet on a battlefield someday sir. You know what side I'll be on, I wonder where we'll find you?
You are welcome to continue to leave comments but I will no longer be responding or ever pulling your stuff above the fold, and I am a man of my word. You are of course welcome to start your own blog, but as that would take courage color me unsurprised that you would not opt for that, no, you'd rather leech off our bandwidth, built with effort to score your points, how courageous, bravo sir, bravo!
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